Friday, January 30, 2009

The continuation of the Reformation.....

Well, to my surprise I actually had someone comment on the previous post titled: What I believe about ecclesiology. So this will be a continuation of that post with some answers to questions that were brought up.
I titled this like I did to remind the people that what Martin Luther started has not been finished. Unlike the canonization of scripture God is continuing to build His church. Not by mans standards, no by His spoken word.
To think that the way we do church is the complete and final way would trully be prideful. To feel that we are doing things correctly would be a misstake. If that were the case then why do we have so many denominations?
My thoughts on all of this is that the Lord is Reforming us back to the biblical way of ecclesiology.
According to research I have done, Luther never meant for the church to look the way it does. He never meant for us to have lavish buildings with ornate decorations while people are outside living under bridges. You cannot honestly feel that we have it completely right when we have buildings that set empty 6 days out of the week and right down from most of those buildings people are hungry, cold, and homeless.
You see I am not against where we meet. It is more of a matter of how the money is being spent on treasures that moth and rust will destroy.
In the NT when Paul and the others met in the temples we must realize that they were reasoning with the ruling Jewish synagogue leaders. So to justify building new "temples" using a few scriptures doesn't seem to fit. After all wasn't it the Lord Himself who said, "I don't dwell in temples made by men's hands"? And doesn't the scripture state that we are all the "temple"?
I am not saying that the house is the only place. Why? Because we are the church. If you are a saint then you are the church. The word church means "called out ones" doesn't it? So since when are we justified to say "let's go to the house of God" or "it's good to be in the house of God"? The Bible certainly isn't silent on those issues. Those are terms from the OT when God did dwell in the temple and only the priest could enter. We are now all priest in Christ right?
So if you are at job site and meet with another believer guess what you are the church gathering.
Simple logic. Not complicated intellect.
We have become complacent because of big buildings. How many people when they leave out of a service on Sunday mornings really feel like being the church? How many really go out and become the church? Not many, because to them they just left the church. Our modern way doing things has made us complacent. A church split in a big box building is considered a bad thing. A church split when meeting in a house is a good thing, because it means there is true growth. Not controversy.
Elders were appointed not hired! They were appointed from good men full of reproof and reputation. Can you get that type of a feeling from someone fresh out of seminary? Not really. It seems to me that you would have to know someone for a while to know these things. I know my wife really well because we have been married for a while. It took time for me to know things about her. I didn't go to a special school to meet my wife and pick her because of her credentials. No I got to know her first.
I am not against leaders in the meetings. There needs to be order, but to the extent where one man exercises all authority in everything is not biblical. What does one person know about the whole body if that person doesn't have a personal relationship with everyone in that body. So if everyone were allowed to bring a teaching for the meeting then they may be able to address a situation better than one "pastor" who does it all. Singing also. The worship leaders references usually come from the OT. In the NT it says if anyone has a song, hymn etc. . By the way for those who are against instruments in the body. From what I have researched the word hymn means stringed instrument.
Paid staff . Paul was our example of someone who took no ones goods. So why do we have people come out of seminary expecting a good pay check. Sort of seems like an NFL rookie. They are rookies. Not elders! Just because you have a degree doesn't always mean you know everything and are expected to recieve respect for that. Seminary training doesn't make you a pastor anymore than me riding in the back of a police car makes me a policeman.
Bad analogy I know...I am just present points.
I am not against seminary teaching!~!!!!!!
The word clergy is not a clear and consise NT word. It is being and has been abused every since the Catholic church formed.
We cannot continue to hold onto our sacred cows for the sake of conformity.
I must get off the soap box for now.
I in no way am trying to mislead anyone on any of these issues. As with the other post I will leave this with some refernces.
I am not being divisive nor am I or have I ever said this is the only way. I am only present somethings I am learning and seeing through the word.
Again it is the Lord who has to make this real for others. So if you don't agree with what I post or believe with all due respect we are intitled to our opinions. Even if they are wrong.
This post is not pointed to anyone person. No it is just another explanation about where I am coming from. I continue to welcome all comments in the context of what is being posted.
I love all as the Lord has commanded. I have and will continue to fellowship with those in the I.C.
because we are striving for one goal. JESUS CHRIST!!!! He should be our all in all.
Thank you....
Oh yes for references please go to the links on this blog. The Assembling Church, Gospel in 3d and some of the others as they are men of God whom I respect and love. They are brothers and sisters who are doing as the Bereans have.


brian foulks said...

You drop some weighty truth on this one....I have been looking for your page for minute. I have honestly always thought more in the area of the believer being in constant reformation. Because we will never grasped the fullnes of the word we will forever grow until Christ return.

Steven Owen said...

You know Brian that is a way to look at it also. As you are right we will never grasp it all in this life.