The continuation of the Reformation.....

Well, to my surprise I actually had someone comment on the previous post titled: What I believe about ecclesiology. So this will be a continuation of that post with some answers to questions that were brought up.
I titled this like I did to remind the people that what Martin Luther started has not been finished. Unlike the canonization of scripture God is continuing to build His church. Not by mans standards, no by His spoken word.
To think that the way we do church is the complete and final way would trully be prideful. To feel that we are doing things correctly would be a misstake. If that were the case then why do we have so many denominations?
My thoughts on all of this is that the Lord is Reforming us back to the biblical way of ecclesiology.
According to research I have done, Luther never meant for the church to look the way it does. He never meant for us to have lavish buildings with ornate decorations while people are outside living under bridges. You cannot honestly feel that we have it completely right when we have buildings that set empty 6 days out of the week and right down from most of those buildings people are hungry, cold, and homeless.
You see I am not against where we meet. It is more of a matter of how the money is being spent on treasures that moth and rust will destroy.
In the NT when Paul and the others met in the temples we must realize that they were reasoning with the ruling Jewish synagogue leaders. So to justify building new "temples" using a few scriptures doesn't seem to fit. After all wasn't it the Lord Himself who said, "I don't dwell in temples made by men's hands"? And doesn't the scripture state that we are all the "temple"?
I am not saying that the house is the only place. Why? Because we are the church. If you are a saint then you are the church. The word church means "called out ones" doesn't it? So since when are we justified to say "let's go to the house of God" or "it's good to be in the house of God"? The Bible certainly isn't silent on those issues. Those are terms from the OT when God did dwell in the temple and only the priest could enter. We are now all priest in Christ right?
So if you are at job site and meet with another believer guess what you are the church gathering.
Simple logic. Not complicated intellect.
We have become complacent because of big buildings. How many people when they leave out of a service on Sunday mornings really feel like being the church? How many really go out and become the church? Not many, because to them they just left the church. Our modern way doing things has made us complacent. A church split in a big box building is considered a bad thing. A church split when meeting in a house is a good thing, because it means there is true growth. Not controversy.
Elders were appointed not hired! They were appointed from good men full of reproof and reputation. Can you get that type of a feeling from someone fresh out of seminary? Not really. It seems to me that you would have to know someone for a while to know these things. I know my wife really well because we have been married for a while. It took time for me to know things about her. I didn't go to a special school to meet my wife and pick her because of her credentials. No I got to know her first.
I am not against leaders in the meetings. There needs to be order, but to the extent where one man exercises all authority in everything is not biblical. What does one person know about the whole body if that person doesn't have a personal relationship with everyone in that body. So if everyone were allowed to bring a teaching for the meeting then they may be able to address a situation better than one "pastor" who does it all. Singing also. The worship leaders references usually come from the OT. In the NT it says if anyone has a song, hymn etc. . By the way for those who are against instruments in the body. From what I have researched the word hymn means stringed instrument.
Paid staff . Paul was our example of someone who took no ones goods. So why do we have people come out of seminary expecting a good pay check. Sort of seems like an NFL rookie. They are rookies. Not elders! Just because you have a degree doesn't always mean you know everything and are expected to recieve respect for that. Seminary training doesn't make you a pastor anymore than me riding in the back of a police car makes me a policeman.
Bad analogy I know...I am just present points.
I am not against seminary teaching!~!!!!!!
The word clergy is not a clear and consise NT word. It is being and has been abused every since the Catholic church formed.
We cannot continue to hold onto our sacred cows for the sake of conformity.
I must get off the soap box for now.
I in no way am trying to mislead anyone on any of these issues. As with the other post I will leave this with some refernces.
I am not being divisive nor am I or have I ever said this is the only way. I am only present somethings I am learning and seeing through the word.
Again it is the Lord who has to make this real for others. So if you don't agree with what I post or believe with all due respect we are intitled to our opinions. Even if they are wrong.
This post is not pointed to anyone person. No it is just another explanation about where I am coming from. I continue to welcome all comments in the context of what is being posted.
I love all as the Lord has commanded. I have and will continue to fellowship with those in the I.C.
because we are striving for one goal. JESUS CHRIST!!!! He should be our all in all.
Thank you....
Oh yes for references please go to the links on this blog. The Assembling Church, Gospel in 3d and some of the others as they are men of God whom I respect and love. They are brothers and sisters who are doing as the Bereans have.

Some questions answered about what I believe concerning ecclesiology.

I have gone through a lot of transition in the last year. My way of doing church became away of being the church. I no longer can hold onto some of the traditions brought on through the I.C. .
In saying that I in no way am saying they are not Christian or that they are wrong in all ways of thinking.
No, I just feel there has been a lot of mis-representation of the scriptures throughout the years since the last Apostles were around. It seems we have added more to the body than was originally presented in the New Testament. So I would hope to clarify some of what I see in scripture compared to what has and is being taught. I am in no way a theologian so some of these thoughts and references will come from various sources as they relate to what I believe.

1. I believe that churches mostly met in homes in the New Testament. (Acts 2:46-47; 5:42; 8:3; 12:12; 16:40; 20:7-8; 20:20; Rom. 16:3-5; 1Cor. 16:19; Col. 4:15; Philemon 2; 2Jn. 9-11.

2. there were no denominations in the New Testament. They were simply the church.
3. Elders and pastors were raised up in the body and not brought in or hired by a board.
Acts 14:23; Titus 1:5
4. "Worship service" should not be a one person monologue with a worship leader. All should be allowed to participate according to scriptures. 1 Cor. 12:4-27; 14:26: Eph. 4:15-16; Rom. 12:3-8;
1 Peter 4:10-11: Heb. 10:23-25: Rom. 12:15; 1 Cor. 12:26
5. Sunday morning worship is not to be rigid. In the New Testament they were to be orderly according to 1 Corinthians, but also have open participation. Acts 20:7-12; 1Cor.14:26-31.
6. The reason for meeting is to exhort, and build up the body. Not give a 3 pointer and leave.
1Cor. 14:3,4,5,12,17,26; Ephesians 4:11-12,16; Heb. 10:24-25.
7. The church is not just to be lead by the pastor. The New Testament had a plurality of co-equal elders. Acts 14:23; 20:28; Phil. 1:1, 1 Tim.4:17; Heb. 10:17; James 5:14; 1Peter 5:1-2.
7. There were no senior pastors, associate pastors, youth pastors...Elders again were equal.
8.The modern church pays pastors. In the New Testament the elders worked at other jobs. Not saying that none were paid. Those who were paid were traveling evangelist, Apostles. Acts 20:33-35, which by the way doesn't mention "pastors" in that scripture. 1Tim. 5:17-18.
9.There was no clergy/laity distinction in the New Testament. If there is please show me. Oh yes, in Revelation it mentions something. Nicolaitons. Which God hates. It means "conquering the laity."
10. In the modern church the Lord's supper consist of a piece of cracker and a shot glass of juice.
New Testament it was a feast. Representing Christ death, but also celebrating His coming back.
Plus contrary to popular teaching they did use wine. Just don't get drunk! Drinking wine is NOT a sin. Acts 20:7; 1Cor. 11:20-21; Jude 12; Luke 22:15-18,30; 1 Cor.11:26; Acts 2:42; 1Cor. 10:16; Acts 2;46.
11. Baptism of new believers. New Testament they were baptised immediately upon confession. They did not go through a "new believers class".
12. Any Believer can baptise another believer. It is not a right held just for the elite.
13. Monologue sermons weren't the norm. In the New Testament if anyone had a teaching, song, revelation. It was given. Not just one person. Acts 20:7; 1Cor. 14:29-35.
14.Tithing! That is an Old Covenant teaching. Not a New Covenant one. It was for old Israel not new Israel. If you are a believer you are new Israel.
In the New Testament the church or body gave primarily to help the poor and assist Christian workers. They gave as anyone had need. Not just ten percent. It was voluntary! Not mandatory!
It was not for building funds, salaries for church administration. Because there were no secretaries, janitors or paid staff in the New Testament.
Deacons were servants. They were needed because there was a great influx of contributions coming into the body. So they were to help administer as needed. Deacon is not an office, just as elder is not an office. It was a servants heart that made people set out for the these functions. We all should be servants in the body. The hand has to help put food in the mouth etc.
Acts 2:44-45; Galations 6:9-10; 1John 3:17; 1Timothy 5:17_18; 1 Cor.9: 6-14; 2 Cor. 8:3; Phil. 4:15-18; Lk. 12:33-34; Eph. 4:28; James 1:27; 2Cor. 8:3-4; 9:7.

So there you go as this is what I have been struggling with. I hope with all the references many questions can be answered as to why I believe this way. I am not on a quest to convert people to the way I believe. Only God can change mens hearts. As He did mine.
The lesson is we need to know our history. Test the word!
Thank you....
I would like to credit www.greatcommissionhousechurches.org for some of the scripture references used. I would also direct anyone wanting some more info. on the subject of House Churches to log onto www.NTRF.org and look up some of the references on that site.

Don't just repeat a prayer, but actually repent...

Here I go again on another rant. This time it is the "sinners prayer" or otherwise known as the "invitation system".
People there are a lot of wrong teachings out in the Christian church and this is probably on top of the list.
I am amazed at all of the people that get "saved" at youth rally's and big evangelistic outreaches every year and yet you never hear from them again. I have been involved with people during my times out evangelizing and you would be surprised by all of the so called "Christians" who said a prayer and thought they were saved. Only because the preacher said they were. I have been invited to a local food ministry a couple of times to preach. Each time I went, the person in charge would say "don't forget to present the invitation". Well, needless to say I haven't been invited back in a while. I also found out from some friends who also ministered there that they haven't heard back either. You see the only invitations we hear from Jesus is "repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand and follow me. He never lead any of the disciples in a "sinners prayer" when He met them. They just believed and followed. Paul never used an invitation system. John the baptist called the people a brood of vipers. Hum how many "got saved" from that message?
The history of this fallacy of the sinner's prayer began with none other than Charles G. Finney. Too many a hero in the faith, but if you did the research you would find he helped to bring down the very movement that God started in the great awakenings.
I don't have the time to go into all of the basis of this, so I would encourage you to do the research yourselves. Don't just take my word on it, find out.
There is some great articles on the net. Go to YouTube and type in sinner's prayer. You can find some videos of people who once said the sinners prayer when they were little only to realize as they got older that they weren't "saved".
Banner of Truth has some good information on this also.
Ian Murray wrote an article that is distributed by Banner of Truth.
Now don't get me wrong there are those who may have said the prayer and really did mean it.
Yet there are still a lot more out there that didn't.
Amen!

A random question- can a person be involved in church all their life and never be regenerated?

I feel I know the answer to this question. I would just like to hear from some others on what you think.

Father please forgive them for they know not what they do.

The words speak for themself. How awesome was it of Jesus to ask the Father to forgive the very people who were going to crucify Him! Is this something we could do when faced with a situation?
We are told in the scripture to forgive one another and that if we don't then the Father won't forgive us.
Before we even start to pray to the Lord we are told if we have anything against another we are to get it corrected. The situation is Christians are still human. We have a flesh that must be crucified daily. We have an adversary in the devil who wants nothing more than for us to fail.
Plus we have the world we live in to deal with.
All of these things combined make our life a little more difficult. Plus Jesus said that we would have tribulation. Sometimes that will mean getting hurt by someone we love. Yet we still must forgive them. We are also told to love our enemies.
Jesus loved his enemies so much that he died for us. Yes, I said us! We were at emnity with God before Jesus died and rose again. There are countless others still in that state.
What would make us think we are too good to forgive someone who hurts or hates us.
How many times are we to forgive? 7 times? No, Jesus said 7 times 70!
So please if you have any unresolved issues in your life from past hurts or current ones. Don't put it off. Forgive those who hurt you no matter what.
We all have pride and we must realize that pride is sin. So look past the issues and seek forgiveness and also forgive those who trespass against you.

Can the modern church structure follow Galations 6:1-3?

"Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch of yourself, lest you too be tempted. Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ."
Last week I went over to pick up a friend and take him to our Saturday night home fellowship supper. I brought my family along since we would be going straight over to the house where we were meeting. So I went into the old apartment building. As I entered it reaped of alcohol. There was a lot of noise coming from upstairs. When I went up the stairs there was an open bottle of beer on the steps. Then on top of the stairs a gentleman was sliding along the hallway drinking. I somehow avoided a collision and went to knock on my friends door.
I got to the apartment and his door was opened and the light was out. Then some young lady came out from another apartment and said oh he is over here. I went to her apartment and there was my friend drunk. Man I was fuming inside. I just looked at him and said ok then walked off. I went down stairs and got into my van. The kids asked where J was at. I told them something came up and he couldn't come.
This gentleman is someone I have been mentoring in the Lord for over 2 months. I meet at his house every Thursday evening for Bible study. We had agreed that I would come over on Saturday and pick him up. So when I got there and found him in the condition I did it just hit me wrong.
I went to the fellowship and couldn't get him off my mind. Then as I was just pondering about washing my hands of everything. (Of course I really wouldn't do that), but it was just random thoughts. Anyway as that was going on the Lord showed me Galations 6:1-3.
As I read the word it was like the Lord was saying you know what to do.
So my thought is this. How many pastors, or church members could actually do something like what Galations 6 says given that the only time they ever meet is on Sundays? Then it is only for a short time so they don't hardly get to know each other.
How many people in a given church are in a transgression and no one knows it? How can someone who is spiritual restore them if all they know of someone is their first name, hand they shake or a face they see on Sundays?
So it seems that we should be having more of an intimate meeting time when we come together. More than a greeting time when a song is playing then you go back to your seat.
You see if I didn't have a close knit friendship with my brother I mentioned then who would I be to tell him how to walk? Since I have had time to fellowship and share the word I have his respect and can come to him with gentleness to see him restored. I can do all of this without being rebuked by him.
I ended up at his house last night (Thursday) for our weekly bible study. I had told him on Monday to read Galations without telling him why. So last night when we went through the study he realized that God was speaking correction. He understood and didn't get upset.
So I am here to say we need to really know each other more. We need to be more aquainted with our neighbors in Christ in order to hold each othere accountable. Also as we do this making sure we don't fall into the same temptations as Paul also warns.
It's like the old song says: "WE ARE FAMILY! ALL MY BROTHERS SISTERS AND ME!"
Can you sing that song and mean it when it concerns where you fellowship?

Some more thoughts about my previous post.

I just feel like I need to clarify about somethings that I put in my post titled, "I can't take it anymore."
I stated that I have been lied to for over 40 years by those who love me.
I would just like to add that I also had lied to people over those same issues. I believed that way also. So it is not a oneway street. I still feel that we need to stop imposing Old Testament laws on New Testament believers.
I am hung up on the tithe issue especially. I was a big advocate of the tithe. I was good at quoting the same old Malachi scripture. Then I would be upset if people weren't tithing, thinking they were doing God a disservice.
If you read the Old Testament laws about tithing you will see that it consisted of grains and animals. Not money!
Plus that was for old Israel. We are converted Gentiles.
I was telling a brother the other day that I know of a lot of people who struggle everyday with not having enough money to feed their families and yet they would give the tithe. Their family would suffer for the sake of paying to the "Levites" and to the building fund or whatever else.
You see we have imposed an Old Testament law in order to justify paying the "clergy" or other non essential things.
People should be able to decide where to give their money as God wills. We don't need a deacon board to give our money to something. If I have the money and someone has a need I am able to do as needed without permission.
A brother pointed out the other day how the scripture "worthy of double honor" is used to justify paying a pastor. He stated if that is the case and that pastor was being paid $40,000 then all those he "shepherds" should be paid $20,000 for their honor. You see we have taken the incorruptable and corrupted it.
We have an abundance of offices in place to do the work of a few. So we need more money to pay for this extra expense.
How many cheerful givers are there in a church every Sunday when they are struggling to make ends meet? How many pastors are there getting paid a good salary when there are people in the congregation who struggle wondering where their next meal will come?
So I say this don't believe the tells being told, when someone gives Old Testament scripture to back up something that is not New Testament.
Granted the New Testament says to give it all away, but not to the church or pastor. No to the work of where Christ would have you put it.

I can't take it anymore....

For 40 years of my life I had been lied to by people who love me.
Not my family, but the institutional churches.
You see the first 26 years of my life was spent in the Catholic faith. After I was married my wife and I got back into going to the Catholic Church. It was some years later that I started questioning why we baptize infants. I could not get a straight answer. Then after she and were youth ministers there I felt like we were supposed to leave. My wife originally joined just to be in a church. You see at first I wasn't going to go anywhere except to the Catholic Church.
It was during a parish meeting that I really felt compelled to get out. An older man had commented that he felt we needed to have more devotions to Mary. As that was said, I felt like a chalk board was being scratched. Oh!! I didn't know what was wrong with that comment, but I just felt it wasn't right. That's when the Lord pulled us out.
After a while of being out of the church system, we found a great fellowship of believers in a Charismatic non-denominational church that was grounded in truth also. We stayed there for ten years and again things started to change and the Lord moved us to a whole new state.
We then found a group of Baptist/non-denominational believers. The fellowship was wonderful there also. I learned more of the reformed teachings.
Now after 4 years I started to get questions in my heart on why we do certain things when it is not in the Bible. Again no one could give a direct answer. Then I found a book called Pagan Christianity. God lead me to that book as it was in the reformed section of the local Christian book store. Needless to say I devoured it. Then I later found out my good friend and co-worker in Christ was reading a book Ecclesia. My questions were being answered.
My heart is torn since I don't understand how the body could have gotten so far off base from the scriptural church.
So when I say I have been lied to where I am going is this;
We the people are a priesthood not just one or two in a group.
We the people are not "lay" people.
We the people should not have a distinction between "clergy" and "laity".
We the people don't have to "tithe" to the "Levites".
We the people can all bring a "teaching" to a service according to scripture.
We the people can bring a song or a hymn not just a "worship leader".
We the people have been fed lies about "worship leaders' and "assitant pastors".
We the people don't have to sit in a chair or pew and face one person in order to have "church".
We the people are to all participate in meetings.
We the people have been told that tithing is New Testament, which it isn't. We are to give all and not just to a building, but to those who have need.
We the people have been told the gifts have ceased.
We the people have been told apostles, prophets are no longer around.
We the people are told what to read and what will be taught because we are to "obey our rulers.
We the people need to seek God and ask Him how His church is to operate.
We the people need to know it is not a one man show on Sundays.
We the people must repent and believe the full gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.
We the people must pray for one another.
We the people must go out and reach the lost and not just talk about it.
We the people must teach our own families the scripture and not depend on a "Sunday school teacher to do it'.
So there you go this is not an exhaustive list, just a portion of what is on my heart.
I urge all to read the scripture and do research to know the truth.

It's official....

I am now on Facebook. What a scary thought. Allowing myself to have one more thing to keep me busy. Though I have already found some cousins and old friends. The main reason for me to sign up is to witness. What an opportunity to have the ability to proclaim the name of Jesus on the internet. Plus you plug your blog spot. Which again is to help in witnessing. Thank you Jesus.
I urge all Christians to use their time wisely as the scripture states. As the days are getting more evil. So witness the love of Christ in whatever way is right.

Jesus our salvation. The cross and our sanctification.

How many Christians struggle? Jesus said that we would have tribulations on this earth. He didn't promise us a peaceful life. He warned us that persecution would come. I am somewhat frustrated with evangelist on the tv. saying come to Jesus and you will have a wonderful life. Or come to Jesus and He will...you name it. They don't tell you that when you come to Jesus yes at first you will experience peace. Then God stops carrying us and we have to start walking out our faith.
I for one struggle everyday with lust of the flesh. Honestly how many of us do? Especially we men, but we don't have to wallow in our struggles. It is not a oh is me thing. No, the Lord provided a way. The cross of Christ! Not crucifying Jesus again. No, but taking up our cross, crucifying the flesh. Sanctification! We are being sanctified. The Lord reminded me the other day about how we tend to want to go back to what we are familiar with. Not all of us, but some.
You see I have an issue with sodas. I can't seem to kick the habit. I used to be an alcoholic. I say used to be, because God delivered me from it in 1996. I have no desire to drink alcohol anymore. I could walk in a bar and not be tempted. That is deliverence. The other day as I was coming from a persons house the Lord put on my heart Psalm 23:1. "The Lord is my shepherd I shall not want." When you look up the word want it means need. I have no need, since the Lord is my shepherd. We should be content with Christ. He is our all in all.
Then the Lord brought me to Ephesians 4. I urge you to read that. Then when you finish there read Colossians 3. These are some great scriptures that remind us to have the mind of Christ. To have the mind of Christ means we should have no wants. That is where the cross comes into our sanctification. Everything we go through has already been nailed to the cross. The cross is the means of our sanctification. Take up your cross if you are struggling with sexual immorality, anger, lust etc. . We should do this daily. I urge you to read the scriptures I have pointed out and pray for the Lord to guide you in your walk.
He is our Father who created us and He provided our way to victory.
You see when I was an alcoholic I didn't need AA. No, I needed Jesus. Now I am realizing that with my other bad habit. Jesus is the way the truth and the life. In Him everything was finished on the cross. Praise God!

You have to check out this blog post from Alan Higgins

Check out the blog post on www.realchristianity.wordpress.com
It has a video on How to make your child a false convert.
It is really good.

Are we neglecting the United States in missions?

That is a question on my heart. It seems it is more glorious or spiritual to go overseas to preach and reach the lost, when people in our own neighborhoods and cities are dying without Jesus.
How much money goes out to missions overseas to the detriment of our own nation? Granted not near enough money is being given to missions as a whole, but that is another topic. I want to focus on the fact that we send people overseas and spend thousands of dollars to do it and yet here in our own cities nothing gets spent. If there is an outreach it usually involves having some sort of activity to get people. Instead of the church going out. Have we neglected Jerusalem (the U.S.) in an effort to reach the world? We have slums in our cities and yet you usually won't see anyone from the local "church" set foot in them. Just mention going overseas to the slums and you may have hands raised and a big line form. We need to redirect our priorities and help our neighbors in our inner city along with those around the world. We build wonderful "sanctuarys" to house our services and then never go out. It is ashame that we can spend millions on a building without blinking, but when it comes to helping our neighbor we fret and fight. Again unless a missionary from another country comes in and talks, then it becomes something. This is an issue from my heart and again I am not preaching against foreign missions. I just feel we need to look at both issues with utmost importance.
We will be witnesses to Jerusalem, Judea , Samaria and the outter parts of the world.
Acts 1:8

Eph. 5:1-21

I've been burdened with this scripture lately. Along with Colossians 4:6 "Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person."
In Ephesians 5:1f We are told to be imitators of God as beloved children. We are to walk in love as Christ loved us and gave Himself up for us. We are warned to not even have sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness named among us, as is proper among the saints. We are not to have anything to do with the unfruitfulness of darkness. Yet do we really take heed to these scriptures? Do we walk in the light as He is in the light? Do we walk in the Spirit? These are questions for us who are the saints or called out ones.
I say I've been burdened because of the seriousness of what the consequences are if we don't abide in the word. We are going to be held accountable for the things we do. Just because we are saved doesn't give us an out. No we will have an even stricter judgment because we know better. I sometimes joke with my children in a way that they openly say, but daddy isn't that lying? Man, what an eye opener. I know we don't lose our sense of humor as Christians, but we should be careful on how we joke with each other. This may seem a little harsh and yet do we understand the situation we get into. I teach my kids not to lie, steal etc. and yet in how I approach them in somethings I end up doing what I tell them not to do. That is not speech seasoned with salt. I praise God for showing me my continued need for the Saviour. It is the undying love of Christ that continues to show me where I still fail. In doing that I learn to become more like Christ. Yes I am a saint, but I still fall into old habits.
I really don't know a conclusion to this other than read Ephesians 5:1-21 for yourselves.

New blog title....

Well, I did it. I have been pondering changing the name of my blog. I want it to reflect more of what I blog about. The other title is what I try to do and this is what I want to say.
Plus there were some other sites that had titles similar to mine and I just want to be different.
This hopefully will more represent things I go through as I live out the Christian life and pursue the cause of Christ. Leave a comment and let me know if the title is good or not. Opinions still count.